[Unfinished] General thoughts

[PROFY]

This post was edited as multiple complains and suggestions were answered and some implemented in game

Iv resets got added, waiting to see how they are. That fixes the impossible rates for now.
I can't delete the post so i'm keeping this for now

TLDR about the old version of the post
many players are discouraged playing the game, I am not making this post complaining and saying to make this game easier as I am one of the top players and grind a lot. I am just concerned about the player rentention rate and the crazy ammount of players quitting the game. The early game should be made easier and not huge level gaps between the first few gyms. Not everyone has good knowledge about pokemon or/and have enough time to grind for exp or good pokemons. One of the examples I made was hunting a jolly gible with decent ivs:
1. Get a Ur which is like ~1/8,000
2. Pray it's a gible and not a magmar 1/2
3. Pray that synchronise worked 1/2 at most
4. Pray for good ivs (lets say 20+ on both attack and speed is good, so) 1/20 for each stat
5. Makes around a total of... a lot for one pokemon good enough for pvp.
Iv resets will solve that problem though, as you will only need step 5 and won't need to repeat 1-4 every time you want to get a gible.

 

[Acedus]

Agreed with most points although I don't necessarily think the main reason that the game is dying is due to one of the reasons stated.

The fact remains that as of now the game simply doesn't have that many endgame attractions for both casual and hardcore players. Mind-numbing events such as fishing, bug capturing, and even DMAX raids which also turned into a sloppy grindfest are not attractions.

The only thing that keeps many veteran players playing is crew wars which occur 4 times a week spread over just two days lasting for a grand total of 3 hours, which is simply not enough. This also relates a bit to your first point as even the game's greatest (current) attraction doesn't do a great job at appealing to the more casual audience.

I already made several posts on what *I* think should be done, all that's left is for the design team to do their part.

 

[Andyy]

Most people complains about the rates but they dont tell what the rates should be. Do you guys want 1/100 rate for ultra rares? Is catching good pokemons without making an effort fun for you? -Not for me actually. Of course, it shouldnt be easy to catch ultra rares, it shouldnt be guarenteed best natures/abilities/IVs. Then, what is the point of grinding?

The main reason of low online numbers is the lack of content currently, not the rates. Taking into consideration that the game is 1.5 months old, it can be acceptable. I think new features like ranked battles/daily tournaments/jvaloh/new pokemons should be implemented as soon as possible along with an advertisement of the game. But, keep in mind that you cannot compare the content in this game with 5-6-years old games.

Your "catching up hardcore players" statement doesnt make any sense to me. Do you expect to catch up hardcore players by playing the game for just a week or two? In which game you can compete a player who has 1000 hours by playing 10 hours?

 

[Dontea]

Most people complains about the rates but they dont tell what the rates should be. Do you guys want 1/100 rate for ultra rares? Is catching good pokemons without making an effort fun for you? -Not for me actually. Of course, it shouldnt be easy to catch ultra rares, it shouldnt be guarenteed best natures/abilities/IVs. Then, what is the point of grinding?

The main reason of low online numbers is the lack of content currently, not the rates. Taking into consideration that the game is 1.5 months old, it can be acceptable. I think new features like ranked battles/daily tournaments/jvaloh/new pokemons should be implemented as soon as possible along with an advertisement of the game. But, keep in mind that you cannot compare the content in this game with 5-6-years old games.

Your "catching up hardcore players" statement doesnt make any sense to me. Do you expect to catch up hardcore players by playing the game for just a week or two? In which game you can compete a player who has 1000 hours by playing 10 hours?

If most players do not even complete the current content in the game then how could you ever conclude that the low numbers of players is based off of content? Profy is talking about casual players not hardcores, if the question was why do hardcore players quit content could be a good response but ur 2 stuck looking at the game from ur own point of view and fail to be able to relate to the average player.

Just yesterday the chat started making fun of and harassing's a player because he was struggling with doing the 3rd gym, believe it or not that is the experience for most players. MMO's need to have scaling difficulty as in the game gets progressively harder as the game goes, if you look at Sinnoh as the first region it should in theory be the easiest portion of the game to complete. If 80% of players are not even completing the elite four then your already heavily curating who can even experience the game.

All of the things you mention as content are things that the existing hardcore players want and benefit from but not things that actually help player retention or open the game up to different types of players.

Onto your point on grinding, ur creating a complete strawman nobody is saying to hand things out to players, we are saying that the getting good mons should feel attainable and not like climbing a mountain. People should be able to log into the game and actually feel like they are progressing towards a goal not throwing away hours of their life.

 

[Andyy]

If most players do not even complete the current content in the game then how could you ever conclude that the low numbers of players is based off of content? Profy is talking about casual players not hardcores, if the question was why do hardcore players quit content could be a good response but ur 2 stuck looking at the game from ur own point of view and fail to be able to relate to the average player.

Just yesterday the chat started making fun of and harassing's a player because he was struggling with doing the 3rd gym, believe it or not that is the experience for most players. MMO's need to have scaling difficulty as in the game gets progressively harder as the game goes, if you look at Sinnoh as the first region it should in theory be the easiest portion of the game to complete. If 80% of players are not even completing the elite four then your already heavily curating who can even experience the game.

All of the things you mention as content are things that the existing hardcore players want and benefit from but not things that actually help player retention or open the game up to different types of players.

Onto your point on grinding, ur creating a complete strawman nobody is saying to hand things out to players, we are saying that the getting good mons should feel attainable and not like climbing a mountain. People should be able to log into the game and actually feel like they are progressing towards a goal not throwing away hours of their life.

I finished all the gyms with my starter pokemon by just leveling it up. Dont tell me the game/gyms are hard. Some players are just being lazy to level up their pokemons and thus, struggling. Those players are just trying to complete the game without an effort. I'm sorry, I'll never be on their side.

2 of my friends stopped playing the game because of the lack of content and they are currently waiting for new things to be implemented to start the game back

 

[Dontea]

If most players do not even complete the current content in the game then how could you ever conclude that the low numbers of players is based off of content? Profy is talking about casual players not hardcores, if the question was why do hardcore players quit content could be a good response but ur 2 stuck looking at the game from ur own point of view and fail to be able to relate to the average player.

Just yesterday the chat started making fun of and harassing's a player because he was struggling with doing the 3rd gym, believe it or not that is the experience for most players. MMO's need to have scaling difficulty as in the game gets progressively harder as the game goes, if you look at Sinnoh as the first region it should in theory be the easiest portion of the game to complete. If 80% of players are not even completing the elite four then your already heavily curating who can even experience the game.

All of the things you mention as content are things that the existing hardcore players want and benefit from but not things that actually help player retention or open the game up to different types of players.

Onto your point on grinding, ur creating a complete strawman nobody is saying to hand things out to players, we are saying that the getting good mons should feel attainable and not like climbing a mountain. People should be able to log into the game and actually feel like they are progressing towards a goal not throwing away hours of their life.

I finished all the gyms with my starter pokemon by just leveling it up. Dont tell me the game/gyms are hard. Some players are just being lazy to level up their pokemons and thus, struggling. Those players are just trying to complete the game without an effort. I'm sorry, I'll never be on their side.

2 of my friends stopped playing the game because of the lack of content and they are currently waiting for new things to be implemented to start the game back

You realize that the difficulty of something is different for everybody right? First of all I do not find the game difficult either, in fact for me this was extremely easy, except I have the awareness to realize most people have not spent thousands of hours playing pokemon the way I have. Believe it or not many people do not even know what natures are or even the type chart, I have had to help people who have completed the story with these things nevermind the people who are struggling with the 3rd gym.

You are also choosing to completely ignore most of my actual arguments in the post and just resort to anecdotal evidence. I agree with you that many people who have completed the story feel like there is lack of content, and nowhere in my post do you see me deny that fact. However it is just inaccurate for you to state that this is the primary reason for the declining playerbase.

Labeling all people who are bad at the game as "lazy" and saying they want to complete the game without effort is also just a super ignorant opinion. People who are inexperienced need a more friendly difficulty curve but that does not mean they are lazy or unteachable. I am not even proposing that these games be as easy as normal pokemon games, just make it so that the average player can actually progress quickly thru the initial story so that they actually reach the end-game stuff. I am all for having extremely difficult content in the game that most players cannot do that confer benefits to the best players, however that stuff should be kept for the end-game for those who choose to go down that path. You should not just cut urself off at the legs by limiting ur playerbase to people who are already familiar with the game etc.

I still feel like you really fail to understand the point of view I am trying to convey, I am not a casual player. I do not benefit specifically from making the game easier, I speed ran the game before anyone else, I was one of if not the first person to get exp share, leftovers, high level vs seeker, etc etc. I am top 10 on tons of the leaderboards, I am not saying this to brag but to point out that I excel at the current version of the game and benefit from the current systems. Except this is partially because of how small the playerbase is, and I want to see the game grow and have a healthy amount of players.

I really believe that this game has an extremely concerning player retention rate. And even with some very nice updates that have made the game 10x better imo we still see the general decline trend continue at a fairly alarming rate imo. Now I expect it to stabilize around the point it is at now, but this is very low for an MMO imo.

Adding content without fixing the core issues is like putting bandaids on a gaping wound, until you figure out and fix the real issues that are causing such a higher amount of players not actually experience the bulk of the game then you can start adding in new content. Adding content is about appeasing ur existing players or ex-players not about fixing the player retention issue and appealing to new players which is the purpose of this thread, afaik.

I also want to reiterate that I actually understand and appreciate that you and other people want a more difficult game, I know for a fact Andyy that you have not played or done as much as me in this game, but I actually really appreciate your outlook anyway. I think it is important to remember that many people do want to be challenged and grind and some content should be made for players like you. Except that does not mean the entire game should be designed around what you like. You should try and challenge yourself to try and think about the game from a more casual perspective and the potential positives it could have on the game as a whole.

 

[Andyy]

You realize that the difficulty of something is different for everybody right? First of all I do not find the game difficult either, in fact for me this was extremely easy, except I have the awareness to realize most people have not spent thousands of hours playing pokemon the way I have. Believe it or not many people do not even know what natures are or even the type chart, I have had to help people who have completed the story with these things nevermind the people who are struggling with the 3rd gym.

You are also choosing to completely ignore most of my actual arguments in the post and just resort to anecdotal evidence. I agree with you that many people who have completed the story feel like there is lack of content, and nowhere in my post do you see me deny that fact. However it is just inaccurate for you to state that this is the primary reason for the declining playerbase.

Labeling all people who are bad at the game as "lazy" and saying they want to complete the game without effort is also just a super ignorant opinion. People who are inexperienced need a more friendly difficulty curve but that does not mean they are lazy or unteachable. I am not even proposing that these games be as easy as normal pokemon games, just make it so that the average player can actually progress quickly thru the initial story so that they actually reach the end-game stuff. I am all for having extremely difficult content in the game that most players cannot do that confer benefits to the best players, however that stuff should be kept for the end-game for those who choose to go down that path. You should not just cut urself off at the legs by limiting ur playerbase to people who are already familiar with the game etc.

I still feel like you really fail to understand the point of view I am trying to convey, I am not a casual player. I do not benefit specifically from making the game easier, I speed ran the game before anyone else, I was one of if not the first person to get exp share, leftovers, high level vs seeker, etc etc. I am top 10 on tons of the leaderboards, I am not saying this to brag but to point out that I excel at the current version of the game and benefit from the current systems. Except this is partially because of how small the playerbase is, and I want to see the game grow and have a healthy amount of players.

I really believe that this game has an extremely concerning player retention rate. And even with some very nice updates that have made the game 10x better imo we still see the general decline trend continue at a fairly alarming rate imo. Now I expect it to stabilize around the point it is at now, but this is very low for an MMO imo.

Adding content without fixing the core issues is like putting bandaids on a gaping wound, until you figure out and fix the real issues that are causing such a higher amount of players not actually experience the bulk of the game then you can start adding in new content. Adding content is about appeasing ur existing players or ex-players not about fixing the player retention issue and appealing to new players which is the purpose of this thread, afaik.

I also want to reiterate that I actually understand and appreciate that you and other people want a more difficult game, I know for a fact Andyy that you have not played or done as much as me in this game, but I actually really appreciate your outlook anyway. I think it is important to remember that many people do want to be challenged and grind and some content should be made for players like you. Except that does not mean the entire game should be designed around what you like. You should try and challenge yourself to try and think about the game from a more casual perspective and the potential positives it could have on the game as a whole.

"You realize that the difficulty of something is different for everybody right?"
- Difficulty is not that much a subjective thing. Especially, leveling up pokemons to finish Sinnoh is not about difficulty

"I have the awareness to realize most people have not spent thousands of hours playing pokemon the way I have"
- In any game based on grinding: if you dont spend time in the game, your progress to reach end game & end game items will definitely be slow. I dont see something wrong in this.

"Labeling all people who are bad at the game as "lazy""
"Believe it or not many people do not even know what natures are or even the type chart"
- I am not calling people lazy who are bad at game. They may not know about pokemon as you said. But I am calling people lazy when they dont wanna level up their pokemons but crying after they cant beat the gyms. Im calling people lazy when they dont wanna search about pokemons/types/natures or whatever on google to learn about the game. Im calling people lazy when they dont even want to read guides. THEY ARE ALL LAZY. They just want everything in the game to be easy and they wanna complete the game without learning much.

"just make it so that the average player can actually progress quickly thru the initial story so that they actually reach the end-game stuff"
"I know for a fact Andyy that you have not played or done as much as me in this game"
"I speed ran the game before anyone else, I was one of if not the first person to get exp share, leftovers, high level vs seeker, etc etc. I am top 10 on tons of the leaderboards"
- True, you probably play much more than me. Thats why I accept that you have better pokemons, you have more pvp items etc. Simple rule: Play to progress. Some players get items in a month, some get in 2-3 months depending on play time. The problem is: These players you are supporting want beyond that. They want to finish the game easily in 2 days, they want to get items in 1-2 weeks.

The main suggestion in this topic is decreasing encounter rates to decrease player retention right? Im gonna tell you what will happen next. After the decrease in encounter rates, these players will start crying over sync rates. So, you guys will probably support them and suggest further sync boost. What will happen next after sync boost? They will start crying over not getting good IVs, so you guys will probably suggest trash breeding system etc. KEKW

"You should not just cut urself off at the legs by limiting ur playerbase to people who are already familiar with the game etc."
- I prefer quality instead of quantity. I prefer 1k online players instead of 5k babies crying about rates, crying about slow progression over and over again

As I said before, I dont believe the main reason of the retention is encounter rates.
Dontea, I think we have completely different perspectives on the game and I dont think we can agree on a common point. You guys can support those kind of suggestions but I'll always be against

 

[Dontea]

You realize that the difficulty of something is different for everybody right? First of all I do not find the game difficult either, in fact for me this was extremely easy, except I have the awareness to realize most people have not spent thousands of hours playing pokemon the way I have. Believe it or not many people do not even know what natures are or even the type chart, I have had to help people who have completed the story with these things nevermind the people who are struggling with the 3rd gym.

You are also choosing to completely ignore most of my actual arguments in the post and just resort to anecdotal evidence. I agree with you that many people who have completed the story feel like there is lack of content, and nowhere in my post do you see me deny that fact. However it is just inaccurate for you to state that this is the primary reason for the declining playerbase.

Labeling all people who are bad at the game as "lazy" and saying they want to complete the game without effort is also just a super ignorant opinion. People who are inexperienced need a more friendly difficulty curve but that does not mean they are lazy or unteachable. I am not even proposing that these games be as easy as normal pokemon games, just make it so that the average player can actually progress quickly thru the initial story so that they actually reach the end-game stuff. I am all for having extremely difficult content in the game that most players cannot do that confer benefits to the best players, however that stuff should be kept for the end-game for those who choose to go down that path. You should not just cut urself off at the legs by limiting ur playerbase to people who are already familiar with the game etc.

I still feel like you really fail to understand the point of view I am trying to convey, I am not a casual player. I do not benefit specifically from making the game easier, I speed ran the game before anyone else, I was one of if not the first person to get exp share, leftovers, high level vs seeker, etc etc. I am top 10 on tons of the leaderboards, I am not saying this to brag but to point out that I excel at the current version of the game and benefit from the current systems. Except this is partially because of how small the playerbase is, and I want to see the game grow and have a healthy amount of players.

I really believe that this game has an extremely concerning player retention rate. And even with some very nice updates that have made the game 10x better imo we still see the general decline trend continue at a fairly alarming rate imo. Now I expect it to stabilize around the point it is at now, but this is very low for an MMO imo.

Adding content without fixing the core issues is like putting bandaids on a gaping wound, until you figure out and fix the real issues that are causing such a higher amount of players not actually experience the bulk of the game then you can start adding in new content. Adding content is about appeasing ur existing players or ex-players not about fixing the player retention issue and appealing to new players which is the purpose of this thread, afaik.

I also want to reiterate that I actually understand and appreciate that you and other people want a more difficult game, I know for a fact Andyy that you have not played or done as much as me in this game, but I actually really appreciate your outlook anyway. I think it is important to remember that many people do want to be challenged and grind and some content should be made for players like you. Except that does not mean the entire game should be designed around what you like. You should try and challenge yourself to try and think about the game from a more casual perspective and the potential positives it could have on the game as a whole.

"You realize that the difficulty of something is different for everybody right?"
- Difficulty is not that much a subjective thing. Especially, leveling up pokemons to finish Sinnoh is not about difficulty

"I have the awareness to realize most people have not spent thousands of hours playing pokemon the way I have"
- In any game based on grinding: if you dont spend time in the game, your progress to reach end game & end game items will definitely be slow. I dont see something wrong in this.

"Labeling all people who are bad at the game as "lazy""
"Believe it or not many people do not even know what natures are or even the type chart"
- I am not calling people lazy who are bad at game. They may not know about pokemon as you said. But I am calling people lazy when they dont wanna level up their pokemons but crying after they cant beat the gyms. Im calling people lazy when they dont wanna search about pokemons/types/natures or whatever on google to learn about the game. Im calling people lazy when they dont even want to read guides. THEY ARE ALL LAZY. They just want everything in the game to be easy and they wanna complete the game without learning much.

"just make it so that the average player can actually progress quickly thru the initial story so that they actually reach the end-game stuff"
"I know for a fact Andyy that you have not played or done as much as me in this game"
"I speed ran the game before anyone else, I was one of if not the first person to get exp share, leftovers, high level vs seeker, etc etc. I am top 10 on tons of the leaderboards"
- True, you probably play much more than me. Thats why I accept that you have better pokemons, you have more pvp items etc. Simple rule: Play to progress. Some players get items in a month, some get in 2-3 months depending on play time. The problem is: These players you are supporting want beyond that. They want to finish the game easily in 2 days, they want to get items in 1-2 weeks.

The main suggestion in this topic is decreasing encounter rates to decrease player retention right? Im gonna tell you what will happen next. After the decrease in encounter rates, these players will start crying over sync rates. So, you guys will probably support them and suggest further sync boost. What will happen next after sync boost? They will start crying over not getting good IVs, so you guys will probably suggest trash breeding system etc. KEKW

"You should not just cut urself off at the legs by limiting ur playerbase to people who are already familiar with the game etc."
- I prefer quality instead of quantity. I prefer 1k online players instead of 5k babies crying about rates, crying about slow progression over and over again

As I said before, I dont believe the main reason of the retention is encounter rates.
Dontea, I think we have completely different perspectives on the game and I dont think we can agree on a common point. You guys can support those kind of suggestions but I'll always be against

I agree that we have very different perspectives, I also just think you are viewing things way 2 black and white. Some parts of the game can be very easy and some very hard. I am not against making content even much more difficult than it currently it, we should also just accompany that with easier content in other places. You seem to feel like everything needs to be insanely time consuming and hard and I just do not get why EVERYTHING needs to be like that? Also if we could even get 1k+ hardcore players I think I would actually agree with you. Except I fail to see anyway you could sustain that level of playerbase with the current systems in the game.

Could you do it for a few months? Sure, but long term I do not think you can sustain with a hardcore game. Most people do not play the game for extremely long periods of time, I rarely play a game very seriously for more then 6 months to a year at the most, just due to how your burn yourself out at some point.

I think our actual point of contention is moreso that I think we can have both a difficult grindy content and easy story mode that can co-exist with each other, and you seem to feel like this is bad. I will end it with on an anecdotal note, if I only had 1-2 hours a day to play this game and could only make 1 CW/event day a week, I would never even log in. Despite having the willingness to grind not having the time makes it so that it is just not worth it since it will take forever to make any real progress. This game does not exist in a vacuum and is competing with many many others games for peoples attention and thus should optimize itself to fight for that attention. Building the game that attracts the largest possible population benefits you even if they are not the same type of player as your are imo.

Either way no hard feelings, I legit appreciate seeing how you view the game since it is always important to listen to differing opinions and understand the root of how and why they view things the way they do.

 

[blackmaskk]

this game isnt dying infact it is growing and best things about this games r the high levels u need to face gyms thats really thought out and best second shinies and no talking needed to heal your pokemon and the events are awesome thank you